It was a good 15 or 20 years before anyone at Rand would be in the same room with me. They didn't want the question raised 'What's your relationship with Daniel Ellsberg?' And not one of them wrote me a letter because they didn't want a letter of theirs to show up in my trash - which the FBI had been going through.
And I saw the sax line-up that he had behind him and I thought I'm going to learn the saxophone. When I grow up I'm going to play in his band. So I sort of persuaded my dad to get me a kind of a plastic saxophone on the hire purchase plan.